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 Post subject: Iraq. The SHAME
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:57 am 
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What a nightmare

After being lied to by our own Government, desperate to take a major role in Bush’s New World Order and acquisition of the Resources of Oil/Secure Jewish Vote campaign, we are blueberry muffined.

Iraq was invaded illegally by a brutal coalition of politically connected “entrepreneurs” and trigger happy Generals keen to show the world that the US still maintains the upper hand with it’s half a trillion dollar budget.

The Iraqi army, the only people who have ever ruled the place were disbanded so that American Corporations could get on with the job in hand. Stitching the place up, increasing “shareholder value” and plundering the up for grabs oil supplies. Possibly the only people who could hold the place together were sent home to work out how they could split up the country into a tribal anarchical warlord fiefdom.

We now have millions made refugees, no infrastructure, poverty, hysterical levels of violence, a totally politically unstable region from Morocco to Pakistan, Iran waiting in the wings to fully exploit the situation and Islamic fruitcakes armed to the teeth by China and Iran just itching to rub the infidels noses in it once again. Plus of course, the 600,000 innocent men, women and children slaughtered by the ongoing fight between anyone with a stealth bomber or an old AK47.

We were told:

Joyous Iraqi’s dancing in the street would greet us – wrong. Pissed off Iraqis cutting our heads off, kidnapping, murdering and looting is what we got.

Joyous Iraqis revelling in their new found democracy – wrong. Tribal clans desperate for a stake in whatever may follow are rounding up their enemies and slaughtering them en masse

Weapons of Mass Destruction – Never found, never proved.

Revenge for 9/11 – except of course that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. It does now. Anybody who wants to kill for fun can head out there for some real action.

So now, the British Army has lost. Basra, who they told us was a joyous liberated city, sprinkled with rose petals is a hellhole, where the Army are bombarded daily. We are lucky to have suffered so few casualties. We will leave Iraq to genocide until we can install another suitable dictator who will service the needs of the Oil hungry USA. The British Army, who pride themselves on getting it right (Falklands, Sierra Leone) have been used as cannon fodder by USA ™ whilst Halliburton has thrived. We have lost to a bunch of sand n*ggers, had our arses kicked by camel jockeys and our social standing on the planet is that what can be scraped off a shoe after a walk in the park.

I want Labours heads on plates for this. I want these filth put on trial at the Hague. I want people to wince with revulsion every time they hear the names Blair, Brown or Straw. Shamed by the arrogant and self serving actions of their “leaders”.

Our armed forces should be scaled back to what is required to defend this Island, our leaders booted down Whitehall by a seething mass for daring to think they could achieve this monumental betrayal of trust. The utter arrogance of it all makes me sick. Never again should the Armed Forces be used to secure anything other than HOMELAND security. That does not include playing major roles in Bush’s demented fantasies or African adventures.

Time to retire, lick our wounds and face up to the fact that the British public were had by British politicians and we are all going to pay the price whilst they retire to Villas in the Bahamas to write their memoirs and drink Champagne, flown in from Texas.

If any of the current bunch of power hungry cretins dares show their faces at the Poppy Ceremony in November, I will not be held responsible for my actions.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:20 pm 
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You have made some excellent points her.

Not specifically to Iraq but on the whole I am not an anti war person by any means but the below impressed me particularly;

I want Labours heads on plates for this. I want these filth put on trial at the Hague. I want people to wince with revulsion every time they hear the names Blair, Brown or Straw. Shamed by the arrogant and self serving actions of their “leaders”.

This is superbly put, a monumental urine up is the nicest way of describing their role in it, war criminals is another.

What Iraq needed was a puppet dictator put in place if Saddam was not suitable for the yanks anymore. What it needs now is its borders sealed, all foreign troops and terrorists removed and be allowed to fight its' civil war through to the end until a particularly blood thirsty tribal leader comes to power who is able to control the animals. Ironically enough, that person was Saddam a few years ago. Bloody western views that democracies work everywhere is rubbish it annoys me the arrogance of our leaders who think that the rest of the world needs to be democratic. Doesn't work in Africa and the Middle East does it.

I agree that when it is the right time to do it we bring our troops back home and keep there here until some very careful consiedration has gone into their futire use in conflicts overseas. But, the only real way we will ever old our own in the world in the coming years is on through our military, but by turning our energy industry over to nucleur power. We need to be self sufficient so that Putin with his gas, the middle east/America with the oil and even china (with her africa interests) can not control us. I hate the thought of being reliant on these people, they are only a threat (Russia and the middle east) because we are funding their success. We need to be strong enough to look after ourself, and in all ways this is where this goverment fails. More interest in immigrants adn overseas conflicts than the true quality of life on this island for its true popluation.

The thing is OH there can be no doubt with hindsight that we should of dealt with Iraq differently (although who really knows what would of happened, maybe he would of got a N bomb sometime later and used it). But know that we are there and the place is a mess, what is the solution, because we have made a mess is the besst way to pull out and allow Iran to have half of the Middle Easts oil reserves. I don't think so, one for discussion this...

Craig


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Yes we were lied too and the main protagonists were Blair, Brown and Straw, the latter two who are also guilty for opening the floodgates for immigrants are still in Gov. and the moronic British public will no doubt secure for them a mandate in the coming GE. A mandate that will enable Brown to claim that there is no need for a referendum on the new EU Constitution. Sorry Treaty!

I supported the war not just to get rid of Saddam but to secure the oil for our industry, Saddam has been despatched, however, I am not sure that we have a firm hand on the pumps.

It is inevitable that US troops will eventually leave and Iraq will descend into civil war, a war which could go on for decades. Just look at Lebanon.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:36 pm 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/03/wjackson103.xml&page=1

An interesting view related to the topic, particularly by page 3.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:41 pm 
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Never mind OH! It's not all bad.

The stock market seems to have done well out of it! :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:43 pm 
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The withdrawal from Basra will go down as a lesson on how not to conduct a campaign.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/middle_east/6975375.stm

Handing the city over to the Iraqi forces is akin to puting Dracula in charge of the blood bank.

Reminds me of the commander who was asked if his troops were retreating.

"No", he replied, "we are advancing to the rear!"

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:00 pm 
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Another aspect of this debacle, that even the Labour voting Morons might be concerned about, is how much it is costing.

Link

Quote:
Total cost of conflict in Iraq hits £6.6bn
Vince Cable, Liberal Democrat deputy leader, said that while the war primarily took a "human and political" toll, the financial costs were "staggering". "Even this figure is almost certainly an understatement," he said. "There are continuing legacy costs, including caring for servicemen who have a lifetime of mental and physical disability."

Iraq is probably the most costly overseas conflict for the UK since the second world war, according to the Iraq Analysis Group, a research organisation monitoring war costs. The £5bn military operation in Iraq now exceeds the £4.2bn real-terms cost of the Falklands conflict. "This money has not grown on trees," said Liam Wren-Lewis of the analysis group. "It could have been spent on public services or in more effective development assistance to other countries."


Despite it all, Brown, the number 2 man in the entire tenure of the government that created this disaster, will soon be elected for another five years with a substantial majority.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:18 pm 
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Money is never a problem for a Labour Government until they run out of it.

They always do.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:37 pm 
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Old Holborn wrote:
Money is never a problem for a Labour Government until they run out of it.

They always do.


This may be Labour's war in Britain, but Bush's closest running dog in Iraq is Johnny Howard, our conservative PM.

How does that equate?

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Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them! ~Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: Iraq. The SHAME
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Old Holborn wrote:
I want Labours heads on plates for this. I want these filth put on trial at the Hague. I want people to wince with revulsion every time they hear the names Blair, Brown or Straw. Shamed by the arrogant and self serving actions of their “leaders”.

Our armed forces should be scaled back to what is required to defend this Island, our leaders booted down Whitehall by a seething mass for daring to think they could achieve this monumental betrayal of trust. The utter arrogance of it all makes me sick. Never again should the Armed Forces be used to secure anything other than HOMELAND security. That does not include playing major roles in Bush’s demented fantasies or African adventures.

Time to retire, lick our wounds and face up to the fact that the British public were had by British politicians and we are all going to pay the price whilst they retire to Villas in the Bahamas to write their memoirs and drink Champagne, flown in from Texas.

If any of the current bunch of power hungry cretins dares show their faces at the Poppy Ceremony in November, I will not be held responsible for my actions.
I agree with Craig (G.Y.M.) Top post OH!

Save me a slot on your firing squad please, would you? I'll supply my own transport and ammunition. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Old Holburn wrote.

Our armed forces should be scaled back to what is required to defend this Island, our leaders booted down Whitehall by a seething mass for daring to think they could achieve this monumental betrayal of trust.

I agree with 95% of what you said but as our army is numerically smaller than the US National Guard and we need to maintain an interest in the world, no "scaling back" is required by our armed forces.

Perhaps their commitments and postings should be scaled back to let the poor sods recover, we don't want to break our army, do we?

Or continue to be dependant on shoddy US air support for operations as in Afghanistan?

Our armed forces are adequate but by their professionalism allow us to punch over our weight.

Rawk

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:25 pm 
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Six and a half billion :shock: That's a hell of a lot of new doctors, nurses, hospitals, police officers, infrastructure, etc.

And what does your labour government have to show for 6.5 billion? I can understand why you are angry. :x :x

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Last edited by Ranter on Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:46 am 
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I worry that 'morality' had a lot more to do with the Iraq debacle than we could imagine.

Dare I say it, but could it be that Bush actually meant those words when he fumbled over a 'Crusade' and 'faith based decisions'? Was he just yanking everyone's chain when he said that God told him to invade Iraq?

How about Tony Blair mentioning that that God would judge whether he'd done the right thing or not?

Has the demented far right gotten hold of bush so much they are openly talking about bringing about the End days?

How in the Hell they all kept a straight face as they showed their little slide show to the U.N I will never know. I have two words to explain the Iraq adventure - Donald Rumsfeldt. This man gives anacephalics a bad name. In claiming (as they all did) that it was an act of ethical consequence, we conveniently sat back and observed the rest of the world going apeshoit with human rights violation and atrocities running riot. But these tiresome places didnt have oil.

Last month it was announced that at one stage, in Afghanistan, the rate of attrition for the British Army exceeded that of the second World War! So its left to the poor bloody infantry to sort these people out.

The whole thing smells like a Bangkok ping pong ball.

I agree with all of OH's sentiments but I am not sure about the homeland security issue. I dont think you can take a cheifly defensive stance and remain secure. Despite the huge resources of USAF and other miitary units they didnt have a clue how to handle 9/11. I think the ability to take a war to the protagonist has always been the best defence..."If you want peace; prepare for war".


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:25 am 
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I could improve homeland security, in fact I could solve the problem. I would do a deal with BA.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:54 am 
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Great opener by OH and good points added by pretty much all those in agreement above.

Labour are USELESS at wars, however, my contempt is even greater for the Lib Dems, who would be even more embarrassing and useless at defending the country.

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